NVIDIA's GeForce 8800 (G80): GPUs Re-architected for DirectX 10
by Anand Lal Shimpi & Derek Wilson on November 8, 2006 6:01 PM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
Virtual Memory
Microsoft is taking tighter control of graphics memory with it's new driver model, and thus is able to provide virtual memory support for the graphics memory subsystem. What this means is that games no longer need to worry about running out of graphics memory. When software needs to write something to local memory, and local memory is full, Windows will be able to kick out something off the graphics card and put it in system memory (this is called paging) until it is needed. This happens without the software's intervention or knowledge. If system memory becomes full, data will be kicked out to the hard drive. Of course, if something like this happens the performance will definitely suffer.
Virtual memory isn't as much a performance enhancing tool as it is a way to remove the burden on the developer to manage memory usage around a hard limit of available space. Certainly, lots of paging will degrade performance, but lower performance is generally better than a crash. On the flip side, it is possible that virtual memory could increase performance by effectively replacing local graphics memory size with unused PCIe bandwidth. This has been the idea behind TurboCache and HyperMemory, but with the added advantage that the graphics driver doesn't need to worry about object or texture management between local and system memory.
Engineers have been wanting to see virtualized graphics memory for years, as operating on really huge data sets is made significantly easier when the software developer doesn't have to manage moving data in and out of graphics memory by hand. We've seen some limited benefits of utilizing both local and system memory on low memory TurboCache and HyperMemory cards. With game developers reaching towards ever larger data sets, high end parts will soon begin to benefit from virtualized graphics memory as well. Building the hardware to accommodate the possibility of higher latencies due to paging and allowing the OS to manage all the memory in the system will definitely help developers focus on building better games rather than better memory managers. That's not to say that memory management won't still be important to game developers. Making sure space and bandwidth are used efficiently are important factors in performance, but the ability to forget about hard limits in local memory will make it easier to take one efficient approach regardless of onboard memory.
Hardware Virtualization
Lately, all the big boys of computing have been infatuated with the idea of virtualization. It makes a whole lot of sense, really. With the advent of multi-core CPUs, AMD and Intel need to find ways to take full advantage of their processing power. Single thread execution time will never disappear as a factor in computing, and some algorithms just can't be parallelized.
Obviously, encouraging users to multitask is a simple way to provide a benefit to multi-core computing. The next step is to encourage developers to write highly multithreaded applications. Beyond that is to allow the user to run multiple operating systems on one set of hardware. One example of how this may be beneficial is in the use of a single system as a normal PC during its use as a home theater / DVR box. Another example is one we've already seen: Mac users running both Windows and OS X on Intel based Macs using a virtual machine manager like Parallels.
In order to really achieve the capabilities hardware providers would like to promote, more work must be done by hardware, software, and operating system providers. One of the major advances necessary is the virtualization of the graphics subsystem. With DirectX10 and the new WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model), graphics hardware is required to support virtualization. This is not a simple request, as games will no longer be guaranteed exclusive access to the hardware while running. We can potentially share game rendering with something like physics calculations on the same GPU. Or we could run a Folding@Home GPU client in the background while we play a game. On the extreme, multiple full screen 3d applications could be running concurrently.
Drivers and hardware will have to support context switching on a massive scale due the huge number of pipelines and registers supported in DX10 class hardware. With the advent of features like TurboCache and HyperMemory (and now graphics memory virtualization), hardware developers are already prepared to handle much larger latencies than we've seen in the past. The ability to preempt a process on the GPU will only increase the potential latency that will need to be addressed.
This is another major step in bringing the GPU closer in functionality to the CPU. More attention must be paid not only to instruction and thread scheduling, but the scheduling of multiple programs. This is no small task when such a high number of pipelines need to be managed. We are very interested in discovering how well NVIDIA has implemented this feature, but we won't be able to test this until we have access to an operating system, API, and software that support it as well.
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Sharky974 - Thursday, November 9, 2006 - link
The new features of DX10 stuff was captivating at first, but quickly grew tiresome and needlessly complex. The IQ comparisons the same thing, some simplicity is needed here. Tell us in a nutshell what looks better and why. The mouse over pictures are well nigh useless as well, and all look like crap. Whatever needs to be changed to get the IQ point across, needs to be changed already, I'm guessing 200 zoom is a problem for starters.Then who's bright idea was it to only test one resolution, through the whole article?
Then who's bright idea was it to dedicate just as many graphs as performance, one per game, to not only power draw, but the even more useless performance per watt? Meaning 66% of your data graphs, in an article about a paradign changin, long-anticipated, brand new GPU, are related to the power usage of the card. Are you electric workers monthly.com now?
I am very surprised more of the comments weren't negative, this review was a total failure.
And yeah, what's with all the non-standard resolution testing? All the big sites like H, Anand, and FS go round and round talking about the incredible depths they go to get the bottom of real world performance as it relates to the real world, average user, and then you guys use stupid resolution likes 1280X960 (FS uses that particular one), that nobody on earth uses, regularly! It's really, really stupid. Hell for that matter, nobody uses 1600X1200 or any non-LCD native res anymore either, yet those are all staples of any review, and so these "real world" articles aren't very real world at all. But that's somewhat of a tangent issue, and I actually dont mind a lot of different resolutions tested, just as long as the big common ones are hit (which is not always the case)
DerekWilson - Friday, November 10, 2006 - link
I'm always working on bringing down the complexity of my explainations. It's one of my weak points as a writer. It's difficult for me to take something and present it at a high level that doesn't reflect exactly what the thing is. Analogies are great -- I like them -- but I have a hard time using them because I can't ever think of analogies that are accurate enough.Any suggestions you have for helping me explain things completely, accurately, effectively, and (especially) in the most straight forward manner possible are very welcome.
As for the IQ comparisons -- these were much more simplified than I had intended (because Anand told me we couldn't do rollovers with 40 images on one page -- it would load too slow). This is our version of putting things in a nutshell. I could get to the point faster though --
IQ:
gamma correct aa is great for edges, but it causes problems with thin lines and transparency/adaptive AA making textures look mushy. transparency/adaptive aa are great but have a large performance hit -- except in 8800 which keeps these features playable and offers higher IQ. CSAA is great at brining higher AA levels to edges, but the loss of Z data at the sub-pixel level makes it less effective at solving the thin line problem than equivalent MSAA modes. The roll overs illustrate all this.
Thats as simple as I can make it -- I hope it helps.
We did not only test at one resolution -- In every game we tested at 1600x1200, 1920x1440, and 2560x1600. In oblivion we tested at 1280x1024 as well.
All our resolution data was in the last graph on each page -- resolution scaling. There are two graphs per page on performance. As you can see, at resolutions below 2560x1600, the 8800 GTX is almost over kill.
1600x1200 is a standard LCD panel resolution and has been for quite some time. It's actually quite affordable now as well. 1280x1024 (while popular) is often too low to matter in a high end performance analysis piece (and where it did matter we tested it). 1920x1440 is a 4:3 resolution that will give 1920x1200 panel owners a very good idea of performance (differnce is usually under 5% in many games). 2560x1600 is a standard resolution for 30" LCD panels.
I can understand being upset if you missed the performance data at other resolutions, but it seems like the rest of your complaints are that we put too much data in the article. I doubt this will change in the future, but is there anything else we could have done to make this article better? We are very willing to listen to feedback, especially on articles as big as this.
Thanks,
Derek Wilson
flexy - Friday, November 10, 2006 - link
>>>complaints are that we put too much data in the article. I doubt this will change in the future,
>>>
i doubt you can make it RIGHT for everyone...however i share the opinion w/ MOST that it is an excellent review. TOO much data is seldom bad, NOT on a site where you can expect geeks and nerds digging every bit of information :)
I remember times when reviews where FAR less detailed...and what can be better than going in-depth into AA/AF modi, showing their differnce in detail ? I think this was right on and i value such in-depth coverage !
The DX10 coverage MAYBE was "too much info" for some...but then legitimate IMHO. We're talking about totally new h/w architecture, totally new and revamped DX API and the first hardware supporting it..so it was defintly a good place to cover this.
Also...you always have the option to skip parts of a review...and the MORE detailed it is...the more it is a helpful resource (also later) to come back and read up. You dont need to comprehend any bit of information at once, but it's good to know it's there.
my $0.2
jiulemoigt - Thursday, November 9, 2006 - link
The first really big issue is that a poly can have more than one color on it, due textures, subsurface scattering, displacements, bump maps, normal maps, occulion passes, specular highlight, transparency, and a few others I can not think of off the top of my head, you could probaly find out just by asking in any cg forum like cgtalk or any dev who has worked with a profesional 3d package. That being said it may have confused people to try and explain how it really works.The other issue is to deal with gamma correct AA, maybe my moniter is showing a way different image but I'm not really sure how you can even compare
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/NVIDIA/G...">http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/NVIDIA/G...
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/NVIDIA/G...">http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/NVIDIA/G...
as the light is highlighting the building from two different direction in the images, the nvidia image is coming from the left and behind the buildings and the ati image is coming from the right and about midway down the image in front of the little building,
though a question that should be asked what time of day is it supposed to be the nvidia looks like dusk, and the ati looks blown out even for high noon, though the one above seems to be the same time of day and the nvidia is blown and the ati is shadowing correctly... really odd for the images, which suggests that some other filter is causing the issue on both cards like hdr, or something else.
DerekWilson - Thursday, November 9, 2006 - link
Yes a poly can have more than one color on it, and I agree our explaination could have been better ... but it is a difficult topic to talk about.The whole basis of multisample AA relies on the assumption that the color of a poly *within one pixel* will not vary significantly. Of course, this is not always true. This is, in fact, the reason supersample AA does make a difference -- it takes into account the actual color of the pixel at the position of the sub-pixel. This is also why its so much more expensive.
I didn't mean to imply that an entire poly must have only one color. But it's hard to talk about MSAA without pointing out the fact that the algorithm assumes one color per pixel per poly (calculated at the pixel center in most cases).
We did enable HDR, but we tried our hardest to take the screenshots at exactly the same ammount of time after loading the scene (Valve's HDR uses dynamic exposure which does change saturation over time and with light level coming into the camera).
While this would impact general image comparison, it doesn't impact the effect of gamma correct AA on thin lines (which is what we were trying to show).
Thanks for the feedback -- if there's anything you can add to help us be more specific in our description, we would certainly appreciate it. We would like to avoid simply leaving details out -- we'd like to learn how to better impart knowledge.
Nimbo - Thursday, November 9, 2006 - link
This must be the first GPU article that does not derive in a flame war between ATI and Nvidia fanboys...flexy - Thursday, November 9, 2006 - link
i actually dont care. I look at performance and comparisons, and then chose what card to get :) Although w/ ATI for years already.If one card, however, has some substantial advantage over another, i'll gladly point that out and also gladly debate with others why i'd prefer card X over Y.
Thats the difference between a fanboy and a enthusiast, i think. As long as i can back up statements w/ facts instead of just defeinding a "brand".
the other "problem" is really that same gen cards USUALLY are pretty much on par prformance wise...so debating/defeninf brand X over Y does make as much sense as defending ferrari over lamborghini :)
But then..if we wouldn't do that and even discuss about the "littlest" details and have lengthy conversations on forums eg. WHICH AA methods is better and why...and why 5 FPS there are better...and/or why this AF method is better than the other...it would be pretty boring.
I mean we're hardware-enthusiasts, and gfx-cards are (IMHO) the most interesting component in a PC :)
DigitalFreak - Thursday, November 9, 2006 - link
I thought we were done with the days of >$499 single GPU cards after the 7900GTX launch. Guess not.VooDooAddict - Thursday, November 9, 2006 - link
Great article.Now I just need to figure out if a 8800GTX will fit in a mATX UltraFly Case.
Araemo - Thursday, November 9, 2006 - link
Everyone is repeating microsoft's claim that dx10 will be Vista-only.the inq (I know, I know....) reported http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35...">here that there will be a directx '9.0L' for XP that supports the new rendering features of DirectX10, but without the new virtualization/driver model improvements.