NVIDIA 9500 GT: Mainstream Graphics Update

Name: NVIDIA 9500 GT: Mainstream Graphics Update
Item: NVIDIA 9500 GT: Mainstream Graphics Update
Author: Derek Wilson

by Derek Wilson on September 5, 2008 10:15 PM EST

Posted in
GPUs

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37 Comments

The Card

This card, being built on a smaller process than it's predecessor, is capable of more performance in the same form factor. Alternate, NVIDIA could make it a little cooler and little quieter and still hit the same or slightly better performance than the part they are replacing. This seems to be the option they have selected for the 9500 GT.

But there is a fundamental issue with the timing of NVIDIA's low end releases. We see high end parts first, mid-range parts next, and low end parts last for any given GPU generation. While we do enjoy the fact that AMD has decided to target the mid-range first and then expand up and down in performance later, their history shows a trend of taking too long to bump up the performance of their lowest common denominator. AMD is promising some change in this area very soon, but we will have to wait until we finish our tests and are able to talk about that to ... well ... talk about that :-)

There are reasons that this makes business sense. For example, parts from higher price brackets, once replaced by faster hardware can be sold at lower price points before new hardware is available. This wouldn't be as effective with a top to bottom launch of new hardware (or if either company started with the low end). But that doesn't change the fact that the less the low end lags current technology, the faster new techniques can be used by game developers.

In any case, what we have today with our new G96 based low end hardware doesn't rock the boat in any major ways. Yes it is faster than the previous part at this price (8500 GT), and yes it competes with previous generation mid-range hardware (8600 GT). But that just doesn't seem like much after the launch of GT200. Here's how it stacks up in terms of processing power:

	GeForce 8500 GT	GeForce 8600 GT	GeForce 9500 GT
IC Codename	G86	G84	G96
Fab Process	80nm	80nm	65nm
Shader Pipes	16	32	32
Shader Clock	900MHz	1190MHz	1400MHz
ROPs	8	8	8
Core Clock	450MHz	540MHz	550MHz
Memory Bus Width	128 bit	128 bit	128 bit
Memory Data Rate	800MHz	1400MHz	1600MHz

We can see that this is just another evolutionary low end part. Yes, volume is large, but apparently offering something that really improves value is out of the question.

The fact is that, traditionally, you get more (if not the most) for your money at the $200-$300 price point. Above this we see diminishing returns on performance per dollar, and below this you really just don't get what you pay for (even though you aren't spending much in some cases).

This needs to change. And it needs to change without diminishing what we get at the midrange. We aren't asking for higher return on your investment at lower prices, but we would love it if the value curve would flatten out a bit. Diminishing returns at the high end are fine (people will pay a premium for the top of the line) but it is just doubly insulting to sell us an under performing part and charge us way too much for the performance we do get.

We don't see any sign of change today, and we probably won't see any sort of major shift next time around either. But we will keep making noise when we have the opportunity. Maybe AMD's next mainstream launch will be a bit more interesting.

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strikeback03 - Tuesday, September 9, 2008 - link
Is it a failure from the GPU maker side though? Take the 3850. It launched as a ~$170 part, and sold well there. They have probably earned back their development costs, so any profit over the manufacturing cost is gravy now. So if they can convince the buyers to go for the $100 last-gen part instead of the $75 current-gen, they make more money and can spend less in development on the low end. Not great for the consumer, but good for their bottom line.

What I want to know is how some of these cheaper cards perform outputting video to an HDTV or something. I built a computer for my brother-in-law a few months ago. He had no need for extensive 3D capability, but wanted to be able to run stuff on the TV from the computer. I ended up putting a 9600GT in the system, but couldn't really find any info on these cards in non-gaming scenarios.
toyota - Monday, September 8, 2008 - link
well Jarred the 9500gt is a completely different core than the 8600gt but yeah its pretty much the same specs. Nvidia loves to have those big numbers. look at most of their very low end parts because they are recycled for several generations.
kevinkreiser - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
cards like these are great for htpc owners who need a little bit of graphics performance but not the huge heat and power requirements of a bigger card. i wonder if these new cards play well with the newest htpc motherboards. i just got the asus p5q-em and dropped in an 8800gt to see what would happen. after trying out a billion graphics driver versions i found out the that newest nvidia drivers don't work with that configuration. i had to settle for the 169.02 version drivers. lets hope nvidia debugs the drivers for the htpc crowd by testing on typical htpc mobos like the asus p5q-em.
djfourmoney - Sunday, September 7, 2008 - link
Yeah but you can be HTPC use out of the upcoming 9400GT or HD4450 which will be out before Thanksgiving...

As was mentioned before, now that the online media has gotten around to testing this card, its too late! The HD4670 will be this coming Wed and I plan to pick up maybe one or two just for giggles and offer to send one out to a web site if they haven't gotten their boards yet. Or I might upgrade to a Phenom, 790GX and two HD4670's

Somebody already Crossfired some engineering samples that Diamond sent him as reward for a raffle he won. Check out Overclock.net and search "HD4670"

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/ati-hd-rade...">http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/...0-perfor...

The HD4670 beats it by at least 40% its not even close. If AnandTech was looking for a card that could be a game changer for the PC gaming market this could be the start. PC programers should not require somebody to spend $200 on a card just to get good performance. Crysis is the perfect example. Experienced Console programers like Codemasters has done much better with GRID. It will run on Midrange hardware as was proven in the game review on here.

Even if you turn down the detail its no worst than a PS3 or Xbox 360. I ran it at 1920x1200@60hz and got upper 50+fps and it was more than playable, I noticed NO slow down or stutter, gliches, nothing. It could have been a console game save for it crashing to BSOD which only PC's do!

You could Crossfire two HD4670's and play anything on the market. Maybe not at the Ultra or Very Highest detail setting but at the very least at default which is usually high.
wicko - Sunday, September 7, 2008 - link
Exactly... there is no need for the 9500, when you have the 9400 or 4450, or AMD's 780G platform. If you want a good HTPC, you should be buying one of those, not a 9500GT. Much less heat and noise, as well as power consumption, you won't be playing many games on them but then again who games on an HTPC?

You might say, well the 9500 is good for media stuff but then I can also game with it! Well, just like everyone else is saying, you can get the much faster 4600 when it comes out to your region, or the 3800 now. The 9500GT is definitely pointless, and I think nVidia is hoping people will buy it without doing research.
DerekWilson - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
sry -- i had originally left this table out.
Finally - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
[quote]It is possible that Larrabee could be a disruptive technology in this market. If Intel is able to deliver a top to bottom launch on day one with volume on all parts, the way graphics hardware is addressed could see a fundamental shift. We might just see the competition realize that they need to change their ways and address the all important low end space with new generations as quickly as possible.[/quote]

Would you kindly refrain from whipping out your Intel-appreciation crystal ball each time you review hardware that's completely unrelated to Intel's could-bes, might-bes and ifs?
Thank you.

PS: Review the cr*p out of it, once it is released, but for this time, if the topic is completely different, why? WHY?

PPS: Oh, the paycheck... I see.
DerekWilson - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
it's just frustrating to see neither nvidia nor amd really pushing performance in this segment. i think after seeing the crappy performance of the 9500 gt in this space that the unknown factor that intel brings to the party might be what we need to get nvidia and amd in line.

tbh, i don't care so much about how larrabee performs (though it'd be nice to have another solid competitor in the market). what i do care about is nvidia and amd not writing intel off ... i want them to be afraid and to really push the envelope next year.

my speculation was not for the benefit of intel (they'll sink or swim on their own merit) but for the benefit of the consumer at the response of nvidia and amd to the possibility of competition at the low end.
djfourmoney - Sunday, September 7, 2008 - link
AMD pushed it, wait and see, faster card you can buy for under $100 no rebate needed!

It beats the 9500 by 40% in all the samem resolutions they tested. Its also slower than a HD3850 but only by a tiny margin and given you don't need an external connector, draws only 75w under load and it perfect for the pre-built PC, HTPC PC crowd that might game on occasion is just fine. You can run games at 720p and frames rates will be more than exceptable.
nubie - Saturday, September 6, 2008 - link
FAIL!!

This card is a failure, nevermind that ATI/AMD can spank it all the way to town and back with an HD3850, Its own siblings the 8800GS/ 8800GSO, 9600GT and 9600GSO simply mop the floor with it, and for around $10-20 more.

I am so sick of seeing posted in a forum: "I got a new video card and payed $120 for it, but the 8600GT won't let me play [insert any game from last 2 years] properly".

The "street" price of these cards is well north of $100. The web price may be in the $50-70 range, but the card is sold retail.

I wish nVidia would simply give up on this price point pushing. The market is saturated, no need to fill a point that you will need to unload your high-midrange cards into in a few months.

I don't see a reason for this card. Really. I could be biased, but why spend money on a card that will need a few driver revisions to be as compatible as the 8600GT already is?

I suppose that you generate 2 sales by releasing this card, but one of them may be to the competition if they are really disgusted.

I notice that nVidia go to interesting lengths to hide the stream processors and memory bus widths of their products. Nowhere on their site are there specifications for their product, you must go to a third party for the information most likely to determine if a certain product is likely to be fast enough.

Forget educating their customers either. I hope that Intel does shake things up, because this is nuts.