AMD's Radeon HD 5870: Bringing About the Next Generation Of GPUs
by Ryan Smith on September 23, 2009 9:00 AM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
AA Image Quality & Performance
With HL2 unsuitable for use in assessing image quality, we will be using Crysis: Warhead for the task. Warhead has a great deal of foliage in parts of the game which creates an immense amount of aliasing, and along with the geometry of local objects forms a good test for anti-aliasing quality. Look in particular at the leaves both to the left and through the windshield, along with aliasing along the frame, windows, and mirror of the vehicle. We’d also like to note that since AMD’s SSAA modes do not work in DX10, this is done in DX9 mode instead.
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AMD Radeon HD 5870
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AMD Radeon HD 4870
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NVIDIA GTX 280
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| No AA | ||
| 2X MSAA | ||
| 4X MSAA | ||
| 8X MSAA | ||
| 2X MSAA +AAA | 2X MSAA +AAA | 2X MSAA + SSTr |
| 4X MSAA +AAA | 4X MSAA +AAA | 4X MSAA + SSTr |
| 8X MSAA +AAA | 8X MSAA +AAA | 8X MSAA + SSTr |
| 2X SSAA | ||
| 4X SSAA | ||
| 8X SSAA |
From an image quality perspective, very little has changed for AMD compared to the 4890. With MSAA and AAA modes enabled the quality is virtually identical. And while things are not identical when flipping between vendors (for whatever reason the sky brightness differs), the resulting image quality is still basically the same.
For AMD, the downside to this IQ test is that SSAA fails to break away from MSAA + AAA. We’ve previously established that SSAA is a superior (albeit brute force) method of anti-aliasing, but we have been unable to find any scene in any game that succinctly proves it. Shader aliasing should be the biggest difference, but in practice we can’t find any such aliasing in a DX9 game that would be obvious. Nor is Crysis Warhead benefitting from the extra texture sampling here.
From our testing, we’re left with the impression that for a MSAA + AAA (or MSAA + SSTr for NVIDIA) is just as good as SSAA for all practical purposes. Much as with the anisotropic filtering situation we know through technological proof that there is better method, but it just isn’t making a noticeable difference here. If nothing else this is good from a performance standpoint, as MSAA + AAA is not nearly as hard on performance as outright SSAA is. Perhaps SSAA is better suited for older games, particularly those locked at lower resolutions?
For our performance data, we have two cases. We will first look at HL2 on only the 5870, which we ran before realizing the quality problem with Source-engine games. We believe that the performance data is still correct in spite of the visual bug, and while we’re not going to use it as our only data, we will use it as an example of AA performance in an older title.
As a testament to the rendering power of the 5870, even at 2560x1600 and 8x SSAA, we still get a just-playable framerate on HL2. To put things in perspective, with 8x SSAA the game is being rendered at approximately 32MP, well over the size of even the largest possible single-card Eyefinity display.
Our second, larger performance test is Crysis: Warhead. Here we are testing the game on DX9 mode again at a resolution of 1920x1200. Since this is a look at the impact of AA on various architectures, we will limit this test to the 5870, the GTX 280, and the Radeon HD 4890. Our interest here is in performance relative to no anti-aliasing, and whether different architectures lose the same amount of performance or not.
Starting with the 5870, moving from 0x AA to 4x MSAA only incurs a 20% drop in performance, while 8x MSAA increases that drop to 35%, or 80% of the 4x MSAA performance. Interestingly, in spite of the heavy foliage in the scene, Adaptive AA has virtually no performance hit over regular MSAA, coming in at virtually the same results. SSAA is of course the big loser here, quickly dropping to unplayable levels. As we discussed earlier, the quality of SSAA is no better than MSAA + AAA here.
Moving on, we have the 4890. While the overall performance is lower, interestingly enough the drop in performance from MSAA is not quite as much, at only 17% for 4x MSAA and 25% for 8x MSAA. This makes the performance of 8x MSAA relative to 4x MSAA 92%. Once again the performance hit from enabling AAA is miniscule, at roughly 1 FPS.
Finally we have the GTX 280. The drop in performance here is in line with that of the 5870; 20% for 4x MSAA, 36% for 8x MSAA, with 8x MSAA offering 80% of the performance. Even enabling supersample transparency AA only knocks off 1 FPS, just like AAA under the 5870.
What this leaves us with are very curious results. On a percentage basis the 5870 is no better than the GTX 280, which isn’t an irrational thing to see, but it does worse than the 4890. At this point we don’t have a good explanation for the difference; perhaps it’s a product of early drivers or the early BIOS? It’s something that we’ll need to investigate at a later date.
Wrapping things up, as we discussed earlier AMD has been pitching the idea of better 8x MSAA performance in the 5870 compared to the 4800 series due to the extra cache. Although from a practical perspective we’re not sold on the idea that 8x MSAA is a big enough improvement to justify any performance hit, we can put to rest the idea that the 5870 is any better at 8x MSAA than prior cards. At least in Crysis: Warhead, we’re not seeing it.
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SiliconDoc - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - link
Oh really ? Now wait a minute, spin master. When the site here whined about "paper launch" it was Derek who brought up a two or three year old nvidia card, and cried and whined about it. Then speculated the GTX275 was paper, and then "a phantom card".Well, that didn't happen.... no apologies about it ever either.
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The PAPER launches of late are ATI ATI ATI ! ! !
We have the 4770, and now this one !
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Gee, when ATI BLOWS IT, we suddenly talk in vague terms about "the companies" having "papery launches" as " the general rule of thumb of how it's done.." - and that makes us "not a fan boy!??!"
R0FLMAO !!!!
Yes, of course, since the red ati is bleeding paper launches and the last one from nvidia one can actually cite is YEARS AND YEARS ago, yes, of course, you're correct, it's "unnamed companies in the multiple" that "do it"....
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I swear to god, I cannot even believe the massive brainwashing that is a gigantic pall all over the place.
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If I'm WRONG, please be kind, and tell me what nvidia paper launches I missed.... PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
Genx87 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Is\was a good idea to shoot for as this is most certainly what Nvidia is going to attempt to achieve. But I am a bit disappointed this care rarely achieved it.I do like angle independent AF though. Should be interesting to see what Nvidia brings to the table. But kind of like the CPU situation(i5) I am kind of meh. But will say this has more potential compared to its predecessor than the i5 series does compared to Core 2 Duo.
SiliconDoc - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
I thought that was just great, those pretty pictures, and then I get to reading. I see the 4890 and SQUARES. I see the GTX285, with CIRCLES and an outer rounded octagon.Then the 5870- and it's "perfectly round" angle independent algorithm, but I still see some distortions.
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So I get to reading and am told "the 4890 and 285 are virtually the same". I guess the wheel was first made square, and rolled as well as when it became round. No chance the reviewer could tell the truth and remark that NVidia has the best, until today.. NOPE can't do that!
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Then, of course, the celebration for the "perfection" of the 5870 and ATI's superb success in the "round" category...
EXCEPT:
We get to the actual implementations and NO PERCIEVED DIFFERENCE IS VISUALLY THERE. It cannot be seen. The article even states they searched in vain for some game to show the difference. LOL
All that extra effort to for pete sakes show that ATI superiority...all WASTED EFFORT, but for red roosters I'm certain it was a very exciting quest, titillating, gee a change to take down big green...
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So bottom line is IT'S A BIG FAT ZERO, even the older, worse ati implementation is apparently "non distinguishable".
It is remarked that NVidia doesn't "officially" support this method in game, and of course, after much red rooster effort, one finds out why.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE in visual quality. Another phantom red "win".
Another reason NVidia makes money (why waste it on worthless crap in developement that makes no difference), while ATI does not.
Yeah, that was so cool.
So happy the "mental ideation of perfection in the card for ati fans" was furthered. ROFL
Dante80 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
A quick question. Why is there no 5850 review available atm?1> Was there a separate NDA for the 2 cards?
2> Were there no sample cards given by AMD to reviewers?
3> Did AMD ask reviewers to postpone said reviews due to market supply problems/glitches?
4> Was this a strategy decision by AMD, for marketing or other reasons?
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
AMD only provided us with 2 5870s, the 5850 was not sampled. 5800 series cards are in short supply, even for reviewers.Dante80 - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - link
Thank you for the prompt answer, that was what I was guessing too. Cheers...^^Spoelie - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
To get enough 5870 cards in the channel for a hard launch, they used every possible die.There are probably not enough harvested dies to create the 5850 line just yet. And they're not gonna use fully functional ones that can go in a 5870 when supply for them is tight already.
Once the 5850 is launched, demand for them is up and yields matured, they'll have to use fully functional dies to keep supply up, but now they're building up inventory for a hard launch during the coming weeks.
SiliconDoc - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link
Uhh, just a minute there feller. The SOFT or PAPER LAUNCH has already hit, the big LAUNCH DATE is today....Newegg is a big ZERO available... (one Powercolor was there 30 mins ago, the other 3 listed are NOT avaailable, I watched them appear last night).
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So, when Ati has a "hard launch" they get "many weeks after the launch date" to "ramp up production" and "fill the need".
ROFLMAO
I was here when this site and the red roosters whined about Nvidia and appear launches, and I believe it was the GTX275 that was predicted to be PAPER (not very long ago in fact) here, and the article EVEN SPECULATED IT WAS A PHANTOM CARD.
All the red roosters piled on, but.... the card was available on launch, it wasn't a PHANTOM, and all that bs was quickly forgotten and shoved into the memory hole like it never happened...
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Oh, but when it's ATI and not Nvidia, the 4770 can remain almost pure paper near forever, and this one, golly it can be 95% paper and it's just " getting ready for a hard launch" WEEKS BEYONDS the launch date!
ROFLMAO
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No bias here?!? "Where's da' bias?!?!" said the red rooster (to the green goblin)...
Give me a break.
chrnochime - Friday, September 25, 2009 - link
Just because you can't find it in the states doesn't mean it's a fake launch. And fake launch? What are you a 12 year old or something? You're like the nvidia version of snakeoil. Just go play with your nvidia part m'kay ?SiliconDoc - Sunday, September 27, 2009 - link
Well, since you insulted, and mischaracterized, I came across the reminder about the 4870 paper launch.Yes, that's correct, this is how ATI rolls, a big fat lying launch date, a piddle of a few cards, then wait a couple weeks or a month.
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" The cards are fast, but as many pointed out HD 5870 is not faster than Geforce GTX 295, which is something that many have expected. Radeon 5850 will also start selling in October time, but remember, last summer when ATI launched 4870, the card was almost impossible to buy and weeks if not months after, the availability finally improved. "
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15643/1/">http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15643/1/
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Like I've kept saying, the bias is so bad... I keep discovering more big fat ati blunderous moves, that are instead ascribed to imaginarily to Nvida.
Thanks for the incorrect whining, anger, and standard PC e-mindless chatroom repeated, non original, heard ten thousand times, brainless insult, it actually helped me.
I learned ATI blew their 4870 launch with paper lies as well.
You're a great help friend.